Viisukuppila

16 vuotta enkkulinjaa kestänyt putki päättyi kolmen tähden keskinkertaisuuden voimin, harmi. Omakielisyysplussani on lähinnä symbolinen.

Kyllähän minä tästä pidin. Jo säkeistöjen tunnelma vaikutti, mutta kyllä vielä plussaa tuosta kertsistä. Ja lopultakin azerin kieltä viisuissa. Ja tässä ilmeisesti on jopa oikeasti azerbaidzanilaiset tekijät? Neljä

Ärsyttää säksättävä komppi, ja siirappiset jouset. Miks noi disney-jouset on pitänyt ympätä tähän, en tajua.
Silti, jotenkin tää viehättää. Kaunis melodia, joka ihan mukavasti on sidottu yhteen ton feattaajan mugham-kansanmusiikkiosuuden kanssa ( taitaa olla aika vaikea laulutyyli ).
Olisko toi hassu englanninkielinen sanoitus osittain ton kansanmusiikkityylin vaikutusta, en osaa sanoa. Azereille kuutenkin iso plussa oman kielen käyttämisestä viisukappaleessa. Parasta tässä on lisäksi se, että ei oo ostettu mellodivarista.
Haluaisin antaa tälle vain kolme tähteä (jouset ja säksätys), mutta kyllä tää neljään tähteen nousee.

Etnoa on, biittiä on, viulut on. Vähän ehkä vaisu. Toki erilainen edustaja heidän historiaansa nähden.

Oi mikä kapan nimi! Sain flashbackit niiltä ajoilta, kun Turkki oli osa viisuperhettä.

Biisikin kelpaa kyllä. Vähän hahmoton joo, ja siksi mitään suurempaa menestystä en tälle odota, mutta etnoulinat sekä omakielinen, luonteva kertsi iskevät tälläkin kertaa. Toivottavasti Azerbaidžan jatkaisi tällä tiellä vastaisuudessakin, niin eiköhän se täysi napakymppikin joskus saataisi. Jo tällekin voi neljä tähteä kyllä ropsauttaa.

No eipä ollutkaan tämä täsmäisku jdeejayj22:sen musiikkimakuun. Itse asiassa toisella kuuntelukerralla aloin jo "lievästi" suuttumaan
En normaalisti valita sillisalaatista, siltä biisi kuitenkin tuntui ja silti samanaikaisesti Özünlə apar alitti odotukseni kirkkaasti pöklöillä viritelmillään mm. sanoituksen, kliseepaskasävellyksen (erityisesti jouset) ja päälleliimatun etnon kanssa. Yökkis + kaksi tähteä. Suatana

Virkistävän erilainen (etno)viisu myös azereilta. Kielestä annan aina plussaa ja biisissä on jotain hienoa kaihoa, joka säväyttää aina. Lähdetään neljällä tähdellä liikenteeseen.

Teräsbekoni kirjoitti: ↑15 Maalis 2024, 19:36 Oi mikä kapan nimi! Sain flashbackit niiltä ajoilta, kun Turkki oli osa viisuperhettä.

Onhan tämä myös kirjaimen ə ensiesiintyminen viisun nimessä. Turkin aakkosissa sitä ei ole. Azerin kielessä sillä merkitään lavea lähes väljä etuvokaali, jonka me tunnemme ä:nä. Foneettisissa aakkosissa [æ].

Tənəən mə kənnəən. Ələ pələtə. Jəədəən təhən həmərəən.

Minusta oikein miellyttävä biisi Azereilta! Tässä on ihana tunnelma. Haikean kaunis. Neljä tähteä.

Alku lupaili jotain kökköä, mutta kappale kasvoikin oikein kivaksi etnotunnelmoinniksi. Joo, toimisi varmaan vielä paremmin kokonaan omankielisenä, mutta ilahduttavaa kuulla edes puolet kappaleesta azeriksi. Aloitellaan neljällä tähdellä.

sziget kirjoitti: ↑15 Maalis 2024, 21:23
Onhan tämä myös kirjaimen ə ensiesiintyminen viisun nimessä. Turkin aakkosissa sitä ei ole. Azerin kielessä sillä merkitään lavea lähes väljä etuvokaali, jonka me tunnemme ä:nä. Foneettisissa aakkosissa [æ].

Tənəən mə kənnəən. Ələ pələtə. Jəədəən təhən həmərəən.

Itse tunnen kirjainmerkin IPA:sta (ei siitä oluesta, vaan International Phonetic Alphabet), jossa se merkitsee epämääräistä neutraalia keskivokaalia eli schwa:ta (https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Švaa.) Azerin kielessä sillä on sitten oma funktionsa.

Minusta on hauskaa, kun esim. lehdistöä kiusataan kirjaimilla, joita täytyy tosissaan etsiä merkkitaulukoista jotta saa ne näppäiltyä. ǝ Kah, löytyi.

Mutta esim. fiittaajan oikeamerkkinen nimi on jo yksinkertaistettu/englantilaistettu; tarkka kirjoitusasu näkyy esim. Eurovisionworld-sivulla laulun tekijöissä (https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024/azerbaijan). Fahreen oikea nimikin on esitetty kahdella tavalla: alkuperäisellä ja kansainvälistetyllä. Niihin pitäisi lisäksi etsiä noita turkissakin esiintyviä i-kirjaimia, joissa on isossakin i:ssä piste, tai toisaalta pientä i: tä ilman pistettä, ı.

Kaunis kappale etnosävyin vahvistettuna mutta ei jää mieleen. Säksättävä komppi myös häiritsee. Kolme tähteä.

Tässä on jotain muhun vetoavaa kaunista kaihoisuutta. Lisäksi toki etnoelementit uppoaa aina. Vahva nelonen, koska voisi tässä olla vielä tietynlaista iskevyyttä enemmänkin. Saisi toki olla azeriksi kokonaan.

Nice to back after sooo long time. Cheers to all of you mates

I have just quickly skimmed some of the comments about Azerbaijan and I got very disappointed. Probably, I should not care, because we used to be biased towards Azerbaijan,  but I would because it comes from my fellow Finnish. Finland, as a country, has been identified for me with honest people who care about justice. I would like to clarify some comments here, because some write without any knowledge. 

Regarding the Armenia-Azerbaijani conflict. It was Armenia who occupied 20% of Azerbaijani territory with the help of Russia for 30 years. Armenia occupied not only Karabakh, but also 7 regions of Azerbaijan, which was equal to the territory of Karabakh itself. Percentage of ethnic Azerbaijanis in those occupied territories was 99%. Armenia brutally ethnically cleansed 700.000 ethnic Azerbaijanis from those occupied lands.For years, the Azerbiaijani refugees and IDPs lived under terrible conditions in the refugee camps. After 30 years of negotiations, Azerbaijan used iits right based on the international law and UN articles to restore its territorial integrity. There is no country in the world that would recognise Nagorno-Karabakh as part of Armenia, including Finland, even Armenia itself. You can google those occupied territories and see what Armenia turned them into. Armenia looted each and every house of Azerbaijanis. Destroyed their cemeteries and held pigs in the destroyed and looted mosques. Even cut all the trees. These once lively cities, towns and villages turned into ruins now.  Just google the pictures or use google earth to witness yourself. Armenia mined every cm of the occupied lands. It will take another 30 years for Azerbaijan to clean those liberated territories from mines. If these territories were Armenian, then why did they turn them into ruins? 

When Azerbaijan liberated Karabakh, Azerbaijan gave Armenians the choice to live in Karabakh as citizens of Azerbaijan, but they chose to leave voluntarily. IIt was also confirmed by the PM Pashinyan that Azerbaijan did not use any force against civilians in Karabakh. And they left voluntarily and safely in their cars. Unlike Azerbaijanies who had to run away with nothing, rapped, killed, hidden on the mountains and forests to be saved. Just because before there was no Internet, it does not mean that it all did not happen. You have no right to victimize Armenia and demonise Azerbaijan. There is no need to be biased. The EU supports territorial integrity of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine, as well as Azerbaijan. The EU supplies weapons to Ukraine to kill all the separatists. Why does Ukraine have the right to kill separatists and Azerbaijan has no right to give them them choice to live peacefully as a citizen of Azerbaijan in Karabakh or provide their security if they want to leave Karabakh to Armenia? Where is your justice here?

Armenia has been allied with Russia for the last 30 years. It is a member of the Russian-led CSTO and EEU. Armenia hosts two Russian military bases in its territory. It is the only post-Soviet country that let the Russian FSB to secure their border with Iran, Turkey and Azerbaijan.When you come to Armenia, it is the Russian custom officers that greet you not Armenian. Its key economic infrastructure like railway, gas, electricity, telecom etc,  are all owned by Russia. Armenia helps Russia to bypass Western sanctions. Since the war in Ukraine, its economic growth has doubled thanks to the Russian sanctions. There are a lot of articles in the Western media about how Armenia helps Russia to bypass sanctions. On the contrary, Azerbaijan took the Ukrainian side from the first day of the war, because Ukraine was the only country that helped Azerbaijan in the early 1990s by sending its helicopters to save Azerbaijanis during the Khojaly massacre and Turkey condemned Armenia after the Kalbajar massacres and since then closed their border with Armenia until the conflict gets solved. We will never forget their help. Azerbaijan supports territorial integrity of Ukraine and regularly sends humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Azerbaijan and Ukraine are the members of the QUAM, which also includes Georgia and Moldova. Azerbaijan and Georgia are well allied countries. Azerbaijan was the second country after the US to help Georgia in 2008. Last year, Saakashvili admitted that Azerbaijan's help was even bigger and without it Georgia would not be able to survive. Despite the Russian pressure against Azerbaijan, Baku did not stop its support to Georgia and back then to Saakashvili. Yet, the EU prefered close their eyes to the occupation of Georgia in order not worsen their relation with Russia and pretended that nothing "serious" had happened back to friendship with Russia.

In terms of allies, Russia helped Armenia as its military ally to maintain occupation of the Azerbaijani territories all these 30 years. The Azerbaijanis will never forget than It was Armenian separatists supported by regular Russian troops of the 366th Infantry Regiment captured the Khojaly and massacred its civilian Azerbaijani residents. The brother of terrorist Monte Melkonian wrote in his book how proudly they were killing Azerbaijani civilians during the Karabakh war. The Russian-Armenian alliance, made Azerbaijan to ally with Turkey and Israel militarily and UK economically, as well as with Georgia, and some EU countries, which eventually helped Azerbaijan to liberate its territories after 30 years. Now, Armenia is upset with Russia, because it is not capable of fighting directly with Azerbaijan and Turkey over Karabakh and its indirect support of the occupation ended by the Azerbaijani force. Just like in case of separatist Armenia, if Russia stops supporting the occupation of Abkhazia, Ossetia, Transnistria, Crimea and LNR, DNR, in the next day they will all also ask the West to support them by showing demonstratively their upset with Russia. 

30 years of occupation taught us a good lesson to not rely on any country, unfortunately it is the turn of Ukraine to learn it very hard now. Unlike Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Georgia were left alone. No country was willing to destroy their relation neither with Russia nor Armenia as in the case of Azerbaijan. Hopefully, the Ukraine occupation won't last 30 years as it did in Azerbaijan, Georgia and Moldova. 
By the way, despite the fact that Armenia is allied with Russia and Iran, Azerbaijan and Turkey offered Armenia to sign a peace treaty and start bilateral and regional economic integration with both Azerbaijan and Turkey with the condition that they will provide investments and security to Armenia, which will automatically ensure Armenian security via a NATO-member country like Turkey. Yet, Armenians and its "beneficiaries" (not only Russia, Armenia but some other countries too) from the conflict do not want it and want to gain time to maintain the current status quo and see how the conflict ends in Ukraine first.   It is the choice of Armenia to be like Georgia and regionally ally with Azerbaijan and Turkey, or be like Armenia and ally with Russia and Iran. 

Feel free to comment if you disagree. Please do not delete this comment, because of the political nature of it. You wrote about politics here first and my comment is just a response to others who initiated the topic "Armenia" under the Azerbaijani music thread. Since your "Armenia" comments were not deleted here, I hope mine remain as well. 
By the way, this is the life of the Azerbaijani IDPs from those occupied lands by Armenia in the early 1990s. Luckily, those sad days are over for us.

UpeetaMahtavaa kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 00:21

sziget kirjoitti: ↑15 Maalis 2024, 21:23
Onhan tämä myös kirjaimen ə ensiesiintyminen viisun nimessä. Turkin aakkosissa sitä ei ole. Azerin kielessä sillä merkitään lavea lähes väljä etuvokaali, jonka me tunnemme ä:nä. Foneettisissa aakkosissa [æ].

Tənəən mə kənnəən. Ələ pələtə. Jəədəən təhən həmərəən.

Itse tunnen kirjainmerkin IPA:sta (ei siitä oluesta, vaan International Phonetic Alphabet), jossa se merkitsee epämääräistä neutraalia keskivokaalia eli schwa:ta (https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Švaa.) Azerin kielessä sillä on sitten oma funktionsa.

Minusta on hauskaa, kun esim. lehdistöä kiusataan kirjaimilla, joita täytyy tosissaan etsiä merkkitaulukoista jotta saa ne näppäiltyä. ǝ Kah, löytyi.

Mutta esim. fiittaajan oikeamerkkinen nimi on jo yksinkertaistettu/englantilaistettu; tarkka kirjoitusasu näkyy esim. Eurovisionworld-sivulla laulun tekijöissä (https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2024/azerbaijan). Fahreen oikea nimikin on esitetty kahdella tavalla: alkuperäisellä ja kansainvälistetyllä. Niihin pitäisi lisäksi etsiä noita turkissakin esiintyviä i-kirjaimia, joissa on isossakin i:ssä piste, tai toisaalta pientä i: tä ilman pistettä, ı.

We had Ä instead of "ə" in 1991-1992 alphabet, but then the authorities returned back to the version of 1918-1922 alphabet with ə, because of the Turkish coding. I still use "ä", because I don't have the Azerbaijani alphabet on my phone and computer. 
The Azerbaijani language is close to Finnish language in terms of the grammar and structure of the words with no preposition. We also have harmony law, which means you cannot use "o or u" after ä and ü. For example özünlä. In Azerbaijani we say: män (I), sän (you), mänim aka Finnish minun, and sänin like sinun in Finnish. We also say meshä-metsä, anna-äjti (in indo-European languages they say mother or mama e.g it starts with "M" not "A".), but in the Altai family group it is anna, äjti, anja in Hungarian. There are some similar words in azerbaijani and Hungarian too like kapu (door), alma (apple) etc. As part of the Altai family, Azerbaijani is Turkic, Finnish and Hungarian are Finno-Ugric. Yet, both Finland and Hungary are distant from Azerbaijan in terms of both geography and language. The Azebaijanis identify themselves as Caucasians and Turkic and mostly have no idea about the similarities and being in the same language family (Altai) but different groups.

In terms of Fakhree feat Ilkin, I haven't decided how many stars to give them yet. Today Youtube recommended another Azerbaijani music with similar beats. Maybe nowadays it is fashionable/trend to sing monotone music like this in Azerbaijan. Because this has 18mln views and was recommended to me after I listened Fakhree feat Ilkin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z5e44j1Jlk
female version of the monotone singer is Hiss. She is a very popular singer. Her song has 6 mln views : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0FuD7_G-w
It is written by Miro, the same guy who has 18mln views.

Näisä, means I don't want to explain myself more and you don't want to listen or continue with the topic anymore.... näisä

Myself kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 22:35As part of the Altai family, Azerbaijani is Turkic, Finnish and Hungarian are Finno-Ugric. Yet, both Finland and Hungary are distant from Azerbaijan in terms of both geography and language. The Azebaijanis identify themselves as Caucasians and Turkic and mostly have no idea about the similarities and being in the same language family (Altai) but different groups.

Altailaisten kielten perhettä ei ole olemassa, ja nittenkin tutkijoiden keskuudessa jotka siihen uskoo ei uskota, että uralilaiset kielet kuuluisi siihen.

sienimursu kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 22:46

Myself kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 22:35As part of the Altai family, Azerbaijani is Turkic, Finnish and Hungarian are Finno-Ugric. Yet, both Finland and Hungary are distant from Azerbaijan in terms of both geography and language. The Azebaijanis identify themselves as Caucasians and Turkic and mostly have no idea about the similarities and being in the same language family (Altai) but different groups.

Altailaisten kielten perhettä ei ole olemassa, ja nittenkin tutkijoiden keskuudessa jotka siihen uskoo ei uskota, että uralilaiset kielet kuuluisi siihen.

I agree that Altai-Ural family is dead theory now. No one can deny their similarities and differences as well. Equally, Indo-European does not mean an Indian or Persian understand fluently German or Russian. Altai-Ural also does not mean any Azerbaijani can understand fluently Finnish.

By the way, once language similarity was developed by Finnish nationalist and linguist Matthias Alexander Castrén. He developed Turanism ideology in his works. According to him, the Finns originated in Central Asia (more specifically in the Altai Mountains) and far from being a small isolated people, they were part of a larger polity that included such peoples as the Magyars, Turks, and Mongols.[9] It implies not only the unity of all Turkic peoples (as in pan-Turkism), but also the alliance of a wider Ural-Altaic family believed to include all speakers of the "Turanian languages". (c) Wikipedia

My apologies for the off top. In order not to off top, I wonder why Azerbaijan does not send Roya to Eurovision. She is aa very popular singer in Azerbaijan. She could have feat with Rauf for example, who writes his own songs. One of their collaboration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6TYAMVWIiY

Off topic jatkuu, samankaltaisuudet turkkilaisten ja uralilaisten kielten välillä ovat todennäköisesti jonkinlaista areaalipiirrettä, ehkä sattumaakin, ja esim. unkarilla on ollut historiassa paljon kontakteja turkkilaiskielten kanssa, mikä on johtanut niin sanaston kuin rakenteidenkin lainautumiseen. Esim. äiti on unkarissa turkkilaislaina kun taas suomessa germaaninen laina, jolla ei ole mitään tekemistä turkkilaisen sanan kanssa. Yhteistä kielikuntaa ei saatavilla olevan todistusaineiston perusteella voida olettaa, mutta käytännössähän emme voi päästä esimerkiksi kymmenientuhansien vuosien taakse.

Biisiä en ole vielä kuunnellut, mutta kiva saada viisuihin lisää kielidiversiteettiä!

Myself kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 22:06 Regarding the Armenia-Azerbaijani conflict. It was Armenia who occupied 20% of Azerbaijani territory with the help of Russia for 30 years. Armenia occupied not only Karabakh, but also 7 regions of Azerbaijan, which was equal to the territory of Karabakh itself.

This is correct and I have mentioned it a couple of times over the years, but hardly anyone seems to care. When Azerbaijan took Karabakh back and most of the Armenians left, Helsingin Sanomat called it ethnic cleansing, which I thought was a biased view. However, the war in Ukraine seems to make it more difficult to blindly support Armenia and see it as a victim in the conflict.

Myself kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 22:06 You have no right to victimize Armenia and demonise Azerbaijan. There is no need to be biased. The EU supports territorial integrity of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine, as well as Azerbaijan. The EU supplies weapons to Ukraine to kill all the separatists. Why does Ukraine have the right to kill separatists and Azerbaijan has no right to give them them choice to live peacefully as a citizen of Azerbaijan in Karabakh or provide their security if they want to leave Karabakh to Armenia? Where is your justice here?

There is no justice in world politics. Well, if you stand for the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia against Georgia, I guess it's fine, but nobody did in 2008 or ever after. It was all about Russia invading Georgia and not criticizing Georgia for invading Ossetia first. Therefore I would not demonize Azerbaijan now any more than Georgia before. The power balance has changed and Armenia will have to live with it. Russia was not a reliable friend, if they ever thought it was.

Myself kirjoitti: ↑16 Maalis 2024, 22:06 By the way, despite the fact that Armenia is allied with Russia and Iran, Azerbaijan and Turkey offered Armenia to sign a peace treaty and start bilateral and regional economic integration with both Azerbaijan and Turkey with the condition that they will provide investments and security to Armenia, which will automatically ensure Armenian security via a NATO-member country like Turkey. Yet, Armenians and its "beneficiaries" (not only Russia, Armenia but some other countries too) from the conflict do not want it and want to gain time to maintain the current status quo and see how the conflict ends in Ukraine first.

If Russia is not an ally, it can quickly become a threat. A small country needs allies and it won't be easy for them to keep Russia satisfied. Who would like to be the next country in Putin's menu?

As to Eurovision, I hope both Azerbaijan and Armenia will stay in the contest. The Israel debate is a different story because of the ongoing war in Gaza and the fact that Belarus and Russia were thrown out, the former without a similar reason.

Zazpikaleak kirjoitti: ↑17 Maalis 2024, 02:16 Off topic jatkuu, samankaltaisuudet turkkilaisten ja uralilaisten kielten välillä ovat todennäköisesti jonkinlaista areaalipiirrettä, ehkä sattumaakin, ja esim. unkarilla on ollut historiassa paljon kontakteja turkkilaiskielten kanssa, mikä on johtanut niin sanaston kuin rakenteidenkin lainautumiseen. Esim. äiti on unkarissa turkkilaislaina kun taas suomessa germaaninen laina, jolla ei ole mitään tekemistä turkkilaisen sanan kanssa. Yhteistä kielikuntaa ei saatavilla olevan todistusaineiston perusteella voida olettaa, mutta käytännössähän emme voi päästä esimerkiksi kymmenientuhansien vuosien taakse.

Biisiä en ole vielä kuunnellut, mutta kiva saada viisuihin lisää kielidiversiteettiä!

Apologies for another off top. Every language has interaction with each other. Otherwise, it would be a dead language. Maybe the Hungarian language has interacted with Turkic languages since Atilla Hun or the Cumans (Kumans)? The Azerbaijani language has a lot of loan words. We look at the grammatical structure. The Azerbaiijani speakers learn Finnish faster than Russian speakers Azerbaijanies in Finland, because they understand the structure or "logic" of the language easier than Russian speakers. By the way, after the Finnish theory on Turanism, it was well followed by the Hungarian nationalists in the 19th century. This is all distant theory for Finnish, Hungarians and Azerbaijanis now. Because none of them perceive each other as close culturally, geographically and politically. Yet, Hungary is a member of the Turkic Organisation.

You have äjti loan words from proto-German, and we have father: ata from Proto-Indo-European or Proto-Germanic.

sziget kirjoitti: ↑17 Maalis 2024, 17:50 This is correct and I have mentioned it a couple of times over the years, but hardly anyone seems to care. When Azerbaijan took Karabakh back and most of the Armenians left, Helsingin Sanomat called it ethnic cleansing, which I thought was a biased view. However, the war in Ukraine seems to make it more difficult to blindly support Armenia and see it as a victim in the conflict.

Many thanks for standing out and telling the truth despite of the fake narratives.

sziget kirjoitti: ↑17 Maalis 2024, 17:50 There is no justice in world politics. Well, if you stand for the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia against Georgia, I guess it's fine, but nobody did in 2008 or ever after. It was all about Russia invading Georgia and not criticizing Georgia for invading Ossetia first. Therefore I would not demonize Azerbaijan now any more than Georgia before. The power balance has changed and Armenia will have to live with it. Russia was not a reliable friend, if they ever thought it was.

Both Abkhazia and South Ossetia separatism were launched by Moscow. Thus, Kremlin would provoke Georgia to act aggressively to blame the Georgian authorities and then make statements that Abkhazians and Ossetians are safe only with Russia. I just recall, for example, in the 1990s, The Armenian Bagramyan Battalion was formed in Abkhazia and fought together with Russia backed separatist Abkhaz forces. Together with other Abkhazian groups, they were able to ethnically cleanse with violence 250,000 Georgians.The Georgian authorities need to act immediately against such violence in its territory. And I believe any country would take preventive security measures. Putin did not like Saakashvili from Day 1, his plan was to provoke Georgia and the separatism card was the best tool for that.

sziget kirjoitti: ↑17 Maalis 2024, 17:50
If Russia is not an ally, it can quickly become a threat. A small country needs allies and it won't be easy for them to keep Russia satisfied. Who would like to be the next country in Putin's menu?

I do not want to repeat the above post, which I wrote the other day, but Azerbaijan and Turkey made it clear to Armenia that their only security guarantors are Azerbaijan and Turkey. If Armenia really wants to reduce the influence of both Russia in Armenia. Since the peace treaty has not been signed yet, Armenia prefers alliance with Russia and Iran.

Unfortunately, I think the next country is Moldova.

sziget kirjoitti: ↑17 Maalis 2024, 17:50 As to Eurovision, I hope both Azerbaijan and Armenia will stay in the contest. The Israel debate is a different story because of the ongoing war in Gaza and the fact that Belarus and Russia were thrown out, the former without a similar reason.

Azerbaijan should leave Eurovision, as it gets nothing good from it. Only negative perceptions about the country, mainly negative comments in comparison with positive and biased approaches. In addition, thanks to both Western and Russian media/propaganda that demonised Azerbaijan and victomosided Armenia, despite that it was 20% of the Azerbaijani territories occupied for 30 years with 700.000 IDPs from those lands, apparently some also think only about politics, on the Azerbaijani Eurovision entry by leaving "unpleasant" comments. What is the point of Azerbaijan to be in Eurovision?

^ Thank you! You have brought up some important points here. I hope people read them with thought. I have been irritated by the demonization of Azerbaijan in Finland and in other western countries. These people are only capable of black and white thinking. You can also see it in other conflicts. It's a shame that the facts of the situations aren't even properly known when this demonization of someone happens.

Tyylikäs ja kiva kappale. Vaatii kuitenkin lisäkuunteluita, että tästä pystyy antamaan mielipiteen. Azereiden suunta on kuitenkin oikea. Mielummin tällaista omalla kielellä vedettyä rentoa menoa kuin hampaat irvessä ruotsalaista muovia tilattuna.

Taisin aiemmin ketjussa jo sanoa, että ihmettelyni Azerbaidžanin mukanaoloon viisuissa kohdistuu ehkä nykypäivänä enemmän juuri tuohon, että miten pääsivät niin helpolla 2009 ja 2013 keisseistä juuri viisujen suhteen (tai 2012 isännöinnin ongelmat), mutta olen oikeastaan samaa mieltä tuosta ylemmästä että Azerbaidžan ei saa viisuista mitään varsinaisesti enää irti (toisin kuin Israel) ja siksi minusta juuri pysykööt viisuissa nyt kun kerran on.

Suurin osa Eurooppalaisista ei tiedä mitään Georgia-Armenia-Azerbaidžan kolmikon konflikteista, esim. 2020 sodasta tai 2023 Vuoristo-Karabahin valloituksesta mitään (jos olen maininnut asian, vastauksena on yleensä ollut iso šokki) maksimissaan vähän Georgian 2008 sodasta joten Azerbaidžan ei paranna kuvaansa, kun kuvaa ei oikein ole. Azerbaidžan ei minusta hyödy mitenkään propagandallisesti viisuista (enemmän esim F1 kisoista jotka pidetään Bakun kaduilla), eikä ole oikeastaan lähettänyt viisuihin mitään muuta oikein kuin ruotsihöttöä. Toisin kuin vaikka Venäjä, joka lähetti Krimin valloituksen jälkeen rauhaballadeja.

Pidänkö siitä, että näin epädemokraattiset maat saa viisuilla? No en välttämättä. Mutta näillä kriteereillä viisut tyhjentyisi aika äkkiä koska omasta näkemyksestäni demokratia esim Iso-Britanniassa rappeutuu entisestään paraikaa pikavauhtia (Maa, jossa nykyisin uhataan pidättää ihmiset valkoisen paperin omistuksesta koska siihen voisi kirjoittaa jotain niin mietoa kuin "not my king") ihan niin kuin siellä olisi koskaan ollut kovin vahva demokratia, eikä minulla ollut ongelmia Puolan mukanaolon kanssa tai Unkarin ja nyt haluaisin Valko-Venäjän takaisin. Jos Azerbaidžan taas joskus alkaa sekoilemaan viisuissa 2009-2013 malliin niin katsotaan sitten siltä kannalta mutta näin tältä erää.

Pahaa aavistamattomana kuuntelin tätä biisiä osana soittolistaani kun tajusin, että viiksimies Ilkinin väliluritukset kuulostaa täysin samalta kuin oman kolmevuotiaan uhmaikäiseni mölinä, jota hän pitää kun muut yrittävät keskustella tai kertoa jotain asiaa ja hän haluaa ärsyttää/huomiota. En varsinaisesti nauti kyseisestä äänimaailmasta.

mmmimo kirjoitti: ↑18 Maalis 2024, 12:03 Pahaa aavistamattomana kuuntelin tätä biisiä osana soittolistaani kun tajusin, että viiksimies Ilkinin väliluritukset kuulostaa täysin samalta kuin oman kolmevuotiaan uhmaikäiseni mölinä, jota hän pitää kun muut yrittävät keskustella tai kertoa jotain asiaa ja hän haluaa ärsyttää/huomiota. En varsinaisesti nauti kyseisestä äänimaailmasta.

Wau, musikaalinen yksilö siis kasvamassa.

^ No niinpä, enkä ole tajunnut tätä, vaan surutta yrittänyt hiljentää kasvavan taiteilijan.
Kappaleen melodiahan on oikeasti aika kaunis, mutta en saa enää tätä mielikuvaa pois ja niin meni pilalle kaunis viisu

Myself kirjoitti: ↑18 Maalis 2024, 01:32 Both Abkhazia and South Ossetia separatism were launched by Moscow. Thus, Kremlin would provoke Georgia to act aggressively to blame the Georgian authorities and then make statements that Abkhazians and Ossetians are safe only with Russia. I just recall, for example, in the 1990s, The Armenian Bagramyan Battalion was formed in Abkhazia and fought together with Russia backed separatist Abkhaz forces. Together with other Abkhazian groups, they were able to ethnically cleanse with violence 250,000 Georgians.

The war 1992-1993 was a disaster for Georgia but it didn't need much provoking from Moscow. The mistrust of Georgia was genuine in Abkhazia and based on their history. The Georgian oppression in the Stalin era made the Abkhazians prefer Russia. Since the 1950's their intellectuals asked repeatedly to join Russia in order to protect their national identity, so the separatism was there when the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia was of course ready to take advantage of the conflicts that followed and Putin would later use them to stop Georgia's NATO process. For Russia the war in 2008 was also a rehearsal of Ukraine 2014.

Saakashvili solved the Adjarian problem well and Ajdara remains a formally autonomous part of Georgia. But it was unrealistic to think that Abkhazia or South Ossetia could be taken by force. The Georgian negotiator 2004-2008 Irakli Alasania has said that a compromise between Abkhazia and Georgia was ready on the table twice, but Saakashvili rejected it. At the same time Russia was provoking Georgia to make the wrong move. It was too easy for them.

Myself kirjoitti: ↑18 Maalis 2024, 01:32 Unfortunately, I think the next country is Moldova.

If Ukraine falls, yes. Hopefully Transnistria will stay isolated.

Myself kirjoitti: ↑18 Maalis 2024, 01:32 What is the point of Azerbaijan to be in Eurovision?

The same as to all of us: it's good publicity for the country and great fun for those who watch it. The negative comments are mostly irrelevant. What people care about is the show, the artists and the songs. It started as an apolitical TV program to bring Europe together after the war, at least half of it, and it became more interesting in the 1990's with the new participants. It will end or become pointless if EBU can't keep politics out of it.

WildDance kirjoitti: ↑18 Maalis 2024, 01:54 ^ Thank you! You have brought up some important points here. I hope people read them with thought. I have been irritated by the demonization of Azerbaijan in Finland and in other western countries. These people are only capable of black and white thinking. You can also see it in other conflicts. It's a shame that the facts of the situations aren't even properly known when this demonization of someone happens.

Thank you very much for looking at the case from a different side. For 30 years, the Western media/politicians closed their eyes on the occupation of the Nagorno-Karabakh and seven regions of Azerbaijan and ethnic cleansing of Azerbaijanis from those territories. Since 2020, the Western, as well as Russian media imposes the conflict as it started in 2020 with all of the sudden when Azerbaijan attacked Karabakh and ethnically cleansed all Armenians from there. 

In fact, Azerbaijan kept negotiations with the hope to solve the conflict peacefully for 30 years. Azerbaijan offered Armenia different models of autonomy of Karabakh including the Åland model, Tyrol model, Tatarstan model, as well as highest autonomy, which could even exist in the international law. Armenia refused all these model and autonomy proposal. Their president Kocharyan stated that genetically Armenians cannot co-exist with Turks (Azerbaijanis). However, 30 000 Armenians live in Azerbaijan, Armenians and Azerbaijanis perfectly live together without any conflict in Georgia. They even have neighbouring villages with each other. They live together in Russia and interact with each other every day. The Armenians go without any problems to work in Turkey and send remittance money to Armenia. Why can't Armenians co-exist with Azerbaijanis, if they do it very well in other countries? Their coexistence in Georgia is the best example. I still believe that these two nations could also co-exist together in Karabakh. After all, we are neighbours and none of us are going to sell the country and move away. If Denmark and Sweden are good neighbours now, German-France or France-UK, Turkiye-Russia they all had brutal long lasting wars, but they are all friendly countries now. 

In 2020 Minister of Defence of Armenia, Tonoyan made a statement: new war-new territories. And PM Pashiinyan also stated in Shusha that Karabakh is Armenia and dot. This all brought dead-end to the negotiation process in the framework of the Minsk Group of the OSCE. In June 2020, Armenia attacked Tovuz, Azerbaijan. It was later stated by Kocharyan that the attack was initiated by the Armenian side e.g Pashinyan. The Azerbaijani general Hashimov was killed during the attack. This caused protests in Azerbaijan and mostly IDPs and younger generation demanded from Aliyev to solve the conflict soon.The protestors attacked the parliament of Azerbaijan. 

In September 2020, Azerbaijan and Armenia went to the war. It lasted 44 days and Azerbaijan liberated all its territories by November 2020. Azerbaijan did not go to Khankendi/Stepanakert and some other places to let Armenians reintegrate back into Azerbaijan. However, the Armenian separatists took it as an advantage. As soon as Russia recognised L/DNR, the Armenian separatists also went with posters Russia recognised "NKR", they had their separatist flags along with Russian in Karabakh, they started smuggling weapons to Karabakh with the help of the Russian peacekeepers, as well as Armenian military forces personnel was sent to Karabakh again. Armenia allocated 300mln to the budget of separatists every year, which financed not only the separatist government but also military personnel. The separatists held a "presidential election". They ignored Azerbaijan again and acted like they were the ones that controlled the territory. There was a risk that Russia would recognise "NKR" or have an Abkhazian and South Ossetian scenario there. 

As a result, Azerbaijan restored full control of Karabakh in November 2023, asked ethnic Armenians to stay and accept the citizenship of Azerbaijan and reintegrate in the region. They voluntarily chose to leave. According to the UN report, EU report, there was not any ethnic cleansing of Armenians conducted by Azerbaijan in Karabakh in 2023.  Azerbaijan did not use any force against them. It was their own voluntary decision. Azerbaijan launched a webpage for them. They still can apply for the Azerbaijani citizenship, if they want to return back. 

Azerbaijan is a multi-ethnic country. We have lived with our ethnic minorities together since ancient times. For example, if you come from the north part of Azerbaijan, you will not understand the language of the south part of Azerbaijan. They each speak in their own languages (Lezgi, Avar, Tat, Talysh ets). We have 200 000 ethnic Russians in Azerbaijan. They have lived in Azerbaijan since the early years of the Russian Empire. We treat them as Azerbaijani Russians, we do not discriminate against them. They are part of our culture and society. They enjoy their rights as the full citizens of Azerbaijan. We do not discriminate or shame them if they do not speak Azerbaijani as in the Baltic countries for example. The same goes to Jewish, Georgians, Sunni or Shia Muslims, many other ethnic minorities in Azerbaijan. It is a melting pot, which makes the county's culture rich and diverse. Armenia could apply this model of multi-ethnicity, rather than Azerbaijan to apply the Armenian model of nationalism and monoethnicity.