Viisukuppila

In many ways it is better to have directly invited composers than to have an open competition judged by a jury. When a jury of some 10-15 people have to agree, it means more experimental songs will be the first ones to go. Ironically, it is easier for a standard MOR-song to survive the jury work than a true classic.
Mind you, direct invitations only work as long as the invited ones take their task seriously and do their homework properly...

In tomorrow's Diggil-ej I'll be playing all the Finnish finalists in their running order. Just in case you missed any of the songs dj:

PLEASE, KrisB: Don't play that song again - I mean My Life, My Love! It's even worse than Nicki French... That's quite much, when I said it. Nicki was terrible and Kimmo Kouri is.... Well, I think you got it...

Nicki and her song were GREAT!!! cheeky-smiley-033: cheeky-smiley-033: cheeky-smiley-033:
2000 is the last time when UK has been in my TOP-10. I really have not liked the later songs... except "Come back" was bubblin' under...

But as you can see UK (or GB) was so much better in the 70's and 80's...

Now I will really stick my nose up, but I will try to predict what will happen in Tampere in the best case scenario.

Say that there is a jury there, that actually understand what they are there for, i.e promoting the good things and stopping the bad stuff, then the songs bound to loose out in the first round are:

KIMMO KOURI The obvious song to kick out,. Too old-fashioned, too local, no charisma, no charm. Kimmo seems to be a nice feller, but he can still have success with the song in Finland, which would do him a lot more good than to become the laughing stock of Europe in Kiev.

A & N Basically for the same reasons as Kimmo. This couple would be far too anonymous in Kiev and look like the Finnish equivalent of Platin, which is Not A Good Thing At All.

ANNA STENLUND Because there is no song there at all. Talent, yes, but this is a song contest.

URBAN COMMUNITY Finland is not the US and this bunch are not the Black Eyed Peas. Rappin in the province would not be the way to the stars. Besides, Milla Alfthan couldn't sing in tune to save her life.

CHRISTIAN FORSS Why? Well, because this is so lame it hurts. Christian may charm a girl or two on home ground, but wouldn't stand a chance internationally. The risk is big that he would score far too well with a televote in Finland, and therefore any sane jury would keep him far away from the second round.

KENTALA Not sure about this one. It stands out, and if dear Harri would start dancing and stop moving like Pingu the Penguin, he would be a real charmer. Maybe a bit too odd and a bit too daring for the juries. Or maybe they will like it more because of that and kick something better out instead?

So, the gifted jury would put the following acts forward:
I'dees
Jennie
Teddy vs MC Criss
Elena Mady
Geir Rönning
Firevision
Most probably with Geir way out in the lead once the jury voting is done with.

This is if everything works out well. The big risk is that the jury is more or less identical to the one last year, and that they go all Eleventh Hour on us again and start kicking Teddy, Elena, Firevision, or, worst of all, Jennie, out of the competition. Sometimes the jury seem to think that the worst thing that could hit Finland would be a pop chorus people could actually sing along to.

I close my eyes and count to ten and when I open them I hope that everything will work out well in the end. Out of my six finalists, nobody would embarrass us in Kiev, nor would anyone be an obvious loser. A few of them could even be expected to work wonders for us.

Fingers crossed... [/b]

TobSon kirjoitti:This is if everything works out well. The big risk is that the jury is more or less identical to the one last year, and that they go all Eleventh Hour on us again and start kicking Teddy, Elena, Firevision, or, worst of all, Jennie, out of the competition. Sometimes the jury seem to think that the worst thing that could hit Finland would be a pop chorus people could actually sing along to.

Jennie is exactly who they SHOULD kick out though and I'm actually hopeful that they will. Jennie is a charming and pretty lady but in today's Eurovision that's not enough. Now that we've just send a big name with a song made just for Eurovision (well, they claimed something else but come on, it had Eurovision written all over it!) and no right of existence anywhere outside it - and failed with that choice, why should we try the same thing again but with a no-name this time? This genre is something us Finns can't do well but others can and do every single year. I can't understand the fuss over this song and I'm sure it would fail in Kiev.

As for your other selections, well... at least I'Dees has no right to be in the superfinal unless the performance has been improved a lot and I mean a LOT. Fans are of course raving over it if there's even a little bit of an improvement but it wouldn't be enough. With their performance in Lahti they would look very pale in comparison to the two Estonian girl bands already selected. We can't expect to do well in ESC if we choose shy girls who are trying to avoid cameras and are styled as aliens. Besides, we've already chosen a lady that looked like an androgyne on stage and it didn't work. Why would these Babylon 5 make-ups and hairdos work?

The other four sound fine but I'd replace Jennie and I'Dees with Urban Community and A & N in the superfinal. Admittedly both need to shape up their performances but they were still far better in the semifinals than I'Dees or Jennie. I wouldn't mind Kentala in the superfinal either though he wouldn't do well in Kiev. Neither will he win in Tampere though so it doesn't really matter if he is in the superfinal or not.

ADDITION: The jury worked very well last year when they kicked out Eleventh Hour! Gosh.. it was horrible on stage and needed to be kicked out! It's a shame they didn't kick out Jari too but considering the overall level wasn't too high, I understand the juries. Sixth might indeed have been the right placing for Jari & T2TT in last year's final but unfortunately juries placing him sixth meant that he would win.

This is what I fear most of all. Why do all Finns think that "Kiss me" is a tailor-made ESC song? In Sweden there would be no doubt, it would be considered a hot favourite and a possible top placing in the ESC, and surely a big commercial success after the contest.

Why is everyone so afraid of a straight-forward, efficient chorus? Isn't it complicated enough? Wouldn't it impress people at the Sibelius Academy?

Besides, Takes 2 To Tango was not a failure, it was the best Finnish placing since 1989... Still not good enough, but definately a step in the right direction.

TobSon kirjoitti:This is what I fear most of all. Why do all Finns think that "Kiss me" is a tailor-made ESC song? In Sweden there would be no doubt, it would be considered a hot favourite and a possible top placing in the ESC, and surely a big commercial success after the contest.

If it was the Swedish entry, it might very vell reach a top placing, because Swedes could perform it (or wouldn't select it if they couldn't!). With the performance seen in Turku, Jennie would be nowhere near to make it to the final of Melodifestivalen.

TobSon kirjoitti:Why is everyone so afraid of a straight-forward, efficient chorus? Isn't it complicated enough? Wouldn't it impress people at the Sibelius Academy?

Straight-forward, efficient chorus?? Which straight-forward, efficient chorus? Where? I wanna hear a straight-forward, efficient chorus too. There is none in this song though. Screaming "KISS ME" every fifth second and ending the chorus in a smudgy "pleaaaaaaaaaase" shout is NOT a straight-forward, efficient chorus. Besides, the arrangement gives a reason to wait for some kind of climax instead of the "please", the song grows and grows until that point and what do we get? A pointless shout and the beginning of a new verse.. eh... straight-forward and efficient... NOT. I was confused of this anti-climax on the first listening.

TobSon kirjoitti:Besides, Takes 2 To Tango was not a failure, it was the best Finnish placing since 1989... Still not good enough, but definately a step in the right direction.

Thanks to Jari and the overall poor quality of the semifinal in Istanbul, T2TT did reach a relatively good placing on the Finnish scale. However, no one can _really_ call it a success, right? And it wasn't a step in the right direction. It was another try at a formulatic entry and it didn't pay off. If we keep sending what is *supposed* to do well instead of what actually *is* good, 14th in the semifinal will probably remain our best placing for another fifteen years. We SHOULD find our own style and not try to imitate the others.

Well, if the only thing you need is a style of your own, then you have found it. Kimmo Kouri for Kiev! :lol:

So you're telling he isn't the resurrected Elvis after all. :?

If anybody would say Kimmo is a resurrected Elvis, then the King would rotate in his grave until the point where you would have to saw new grass on it... :lol:

Quite a lot of people have said so, including the presenters in the live broadcast from Jyväskylä!

I completly agree with Tobson! Jennie's song would be a huge hit in Sweden, and swedish songwriters and even swedish media agree with that! It's unfair to compare the performances in e.g. Turku with the performances in the swedish MF, because the Caribia-stage is a small, dark, boring stage with very limited opportunities while the MF-stages are large with almost endless opportunities. I'm sure that Jennie would have a superb show in e.g. Gothenburg.

Timoteus, do you mean that Jari Sillanpää is a big name and that his song was made for Eurovision?!? You must be kidding!?! Do you actually belive that someone i Europe know him?!?

Jennie is the opposite to Sillanpää, she has style, charisma, a perfect ESC-song and a good show. This is exactly the genre that is succesful in ESC, 9 songs of the top10 are always typical ESC-songs, e.g. Sweden always has a typical ESC-song. Hopefully Finland soon will learn something about what it takes to be succesful in ESC, and Finland can as well as other countries send this genre. But unfortunately many what to send artists like Sillanpää and Kuori (and Frederik if they could.), with an expected result.

Kuningas kirjoitti:Jennie is the opposite to Sillanpää, she has style, charisma, a perfect ESC-song and a good show. This is exactly the genre that is succesful in ESC, 9 songs of the top10 are always typical ESC-songs, e.g. Sweden always has a typical ESC-song. Hopefully Finland soon will learn something about what it takes to be succesful in ESC, and Finland can as well as other countries send this genre. But unfortunately many what to send artists like Sillanpää and Kuori (and Frederik if they could.), with an expected result.

I think that the time of typical ESC-songs is gone. I mean Sweden will get points for just being Sweden, no matter what they send to ESC. And to me it seems that Sweden is the only country to get succes by sending typical ESC-songs to the contest...
I don't want us to send a song that we don't like to the contest, just because that kind of songs typically get points in ESC. We are not Swedes, we're Finns and we should choose a song we like the best and not the song we think the rest of the europe would like...

I disagree with Colby. A typical succesful ESC-song (according to opinion) includes these key-factors: show, performance, charisma and a song that is "swinging". I think that 4 of the top6 last were quite typical: Ukraine, Sweden, Greece and Turkey.

One also must remember that this is ESC, not a finnish song contest, and why would not Finland send a song that can get points?!? Do you want Finland to be last year after year? Everyone has an own opinion, and all the 12 songs that have reached the finals are liked by someone.

I don't think Turkey last year was typical at all. That's one of the reasons I liked it. I don't want every song to sound the same.

I don't like the idea that we should think too much about which song could do well in the final/semifinal. To me it's more important to send a good song, I don't care so much about how we get points, though it would be nice to see Finland in the final in Kiev. I still don't think Jennie's song would take us there.

By typical ESC-song I don't mean that every song has to be "standardized", I already wrote that I see show, performance, charisma and a song that is "swinging" as key-factors. In that sense Turkey had a good show, a good performance and a "swinging" song (may be not charisma).

This is after all ESC, and if one don't like the concept one should not watch it. The key-thing is to receive points, why participate else...? At least I want Finland to send a song that can reach the finals.

And as I said, everyone has an own opinion. To me it's important that me send a good song.

I totally agree with you kuningas!

If you don't want to win Eurovision, then why pay a lot of money to be in the contest in the first place? I'm quite sure most Finns would want to win but many have lost their confidence in Finnish music after all these years. I can get so angry when discussing Eurovision with Finnish people. Just forget about the past and start fresh!

And if Jennie would win on Saturday it would indeed be a fresh start for Finland!!!

She can sing, she can dance, she can smile (!!), she has a performance and she has a real catchy song that people will remember after just hearing it once.

Basically, Jennie has everything Christian Forss would kill for! :lol:

Well... I do want Finland to win, but I'm sure we won't if we send Jennie to Kiev. The song sounds cheap, and I have to disagree with the catchiness also. Jennie seems to sing ok, but I'm not convinced about the whole package. Actually the stage performance reminded me of FLY's "Hello from Mars" and we all know how it scored...

Just forget about the past and start fresh!

And if Jennie would win on Saturday it would indeed be a fresh start for Finland!!!

I think there is a conflict between these two sentences. Sending Jennie would be everything else but a fresh start More like a journey back to the 1990's.

And kuningas, I got your point about typical ESC-songs. I still don't think you could compare Jennie to Ruslana, Sakis, Athena or Lena in any of those key-factors you said... Jennie doesn't come even close...

Colby kirjoitti:I think there is a conflict between these two sentences. Sending Jennie would be everything else but a fresh start More like a journey back to the 1990's.

In what way?
Beat? Kaija? Pave? CatCat? Jasmine? Edea?

Personally I don't see any similarity between "Kiss Me" & Jennie and those singers and their entries from the 90s.

I agree completely with Colby here but I must make a few comments

Kuningas kirjoitti:I completly agree with Tobson! Jennie's song would be a huge hit in Sweden, and swedish songwriters and even swedish media agree with that!

Heja Sverige! Finland isn't Sweden and I guess I must reveal a horrible fact that there are also 38 other participating countries that aren't Swedens either! Even if we got 12 points from Sweden with Jennie, it wouldn't take us far. Besides, we wouldn't. In ESC Sweden tends to vote quite differently than in MF. The last two years Sweden has given its twelve points for ballads (I'm not afraid to move on and Lane moje), the two years before that, for its own nationals (Antique and Sahlene).

Kuningas kirjoitti:Timoteus, do you mean that Jari Sillanpää is a big name and that his song was made for Eurovision?!? You must be kidding!?! Do you actually belive that someone i Europe know him?!?

Ehh.. and you must have intentionally misunderstood me here. I never said that Jari was a big name internationally but, like it or not, he is a big name in Finland. OK, it's often argumented that in ESC it doesn't matter if you're a big name in your own country. In theory, that's right, it doesn't. However, in reality, being a big name even locally means you must have gathered quite a lot of stage experience and one can't become a big name without some charisma and/or vocal capabilities (OK, OK, it is possible.. via a casting show)!

Kuningas kirjoitti:Jennie is the opposite to Sillanpää, she has style, charisma, a perfect ESC-song and a good show.

Ahem... Jennie might be the opposite to Sillanpää because Sillanpää had far more charisma. However, neither had a good (let alone perfect) song nor a good show.

Kuningas kirjoitti:This is exactly the genre that is succesful in ESC, 9 songs of the top10 are always typical ESC-songs, e.g. Sweden always has a typical ESC-song.

Nonsense. Most of the top10 is nowadays far from the usual ESC stuff, especially nothing like Kiss me. Last year only Sweden and possibly Bosnia and Greece had a ESC song by numbers and all of them had far more charismatic (and experienced!!!) artists than Jennie. The Ukrainian, Turkish, Cypriot and German entries were actually more or less something unprecedented in ESC and they all did very well.

I think the key factors for success in ESC nowadays are something totally else to what you're listing. Actually, there is only one key factor: genuineness! This is exactly the point Jennie fails, her song sounds as ungenuine as one can be and Jennie's performance isn't really convincing either. And no, I don't mean the dance show alone but IMHO she didn't seem to be enjoying what she did and I didn't see the so called charisma anywhere. Don't underestimate the European televoting audience, generally they see through the ungenuine "products". There are exceptions but I wouldn't count on Finland being one this year.

Choosing Jennie and "Kiss me" indeed would be no fresh start but I can't agree with Colby either, it wouldn't be a step back to 90's, it would be a step back to the 80's or the 70's!

Well, there is not much point in discussing this further, as you seem as convinced as I am myself... I still insist that Jennie would be Finland's best chance in years, but the only thing I know for sure is that by Satruday night we will have a winner, either we are pleased with it or not. Then we can see how that fares in Kiev, and as for the other ones, we will never know.

Just keep Christian Forss out or I will take issue!!!

TobSon kirjoitti:Just keep Christian Forss out or I will take issue!!!

At least we agree on this. He would be the worst choice by far but I'm sure he won't reach the superfinal. Actually I'd be surprised if he gets any points from the regional juries.

I'm off to Tampere. Thought to remind you, in case you haven't been reading the Finnish "Pulinaa" section (some of you seem know more Finnish than you let on), that you're welcome to join the afternoon pre-party at a conference room in the Ramada Hotel right across the street from Tampere-Talo. The room is reserved for us from 2 pm on. There's hardly any munchies, but there's music, old Eurovision videotapes and a chance to meet the faces behind the names! And the lobby bar of the hotel will be open. 5 euros/person will be collected to cover the rent and the fan favorite prize costs.

Follow the Viisukuppila signs in the lobby and please do drop in! Would be fun to see you!

Och samma på svenska (i know you Swedes are reading the English thread anyway...)


WELCOME!!!

Where are all our Swedish friends?
Nothing to say or perhaps having ESC-hangover (nothing to do with alcohol)?



I´m happy for Geir and Why also for Steven and Mika

They scare that Finland will beat them this year.

in Tammerfors :-D

A good show, an OK winner. It could have been worse was my summary of the whole evening.
I'm sure Geir will perform the song well in Kiev, and maybe there is a chance for the final. But there are a lot of ballads in the semi...

Elena was great in the 2nd performance I thought!

In fact, KrisB, I was very near to you! I almost thought to say "hi", but I thought that you have some work to do. So I thought to be without disturbing you.

Congrats to the entire team behind WHY, especially to SAMPO from Kuppila!!!!! You are fabulous!!!!

What a fun event Tampere was. Just watched Geir's interview on aamu-TV and am confident we all made the right choice. Geir gives a very professional, positive yet down-to-earth impression! Too bad the interviewer didn't know much anything about Eurovision. Geir was wonderful, he promised to do better than last year's entry T2TT to we're all looking forward to a great performance in Kiev!!

MANY CONGRATS AGAIN to everyone who was behind the song and involved in the project! Also all the fans that cheered for Geir in the hall. To cite Terry Wogan "They liked that in the hall!!". It is so essential to have a good feedback from the audience. Banderollit, cheering and kyltit make also people on kotisohvat grab their mobile phones and vote for the song!

Sampo please be kind and extend Kuppila's greetings to Geir, for all of us!!!!